Power Map Calibration Issues with Elite Arion Digital Smart B+

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krispenhartung
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:16 am

Power Map Calibration Issues with Elite Arion Digital Smart B+

Postby krispenhartung » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:18 pm

I have a Elite Arion Digital Smart B+ and have had nothing but issues with it since day 1 in light of calibrating it and attempting to find the right power map (P1-3) settings. I am using the smart rollers with the BKOOL simulator, in particular the Velodrome simulator. This should be a fairly straight forward test scenario: 0% grade (in the sprint lane almost on the back measure line), track bike on the rollers, using either a Stages Dura-Ace power meter or SRM power meter coupled to a Garmin as reference point for power). No climbing. No simulated headwind. No terrain. No gear changing. Simple.

This is what I am finding...

First, this isn't the normal issue I see cited where the power being transmitted by the smart rollers to the app is either lower or higher than what the power meter reads. I've already read the support recommendations for this issue, and I have had multiple email exchanges with support on it. That solution is simply a matter of lowering or increasing the P1, P2, and P3 values proportionally by increments of 20-30w. I wish the issue were that simple, but I think the real issue has to do with the power curve that the P1-3 values generate. In addition, I have used the calibration functionality of the Elite app, where it has you ride at 3 separate P1-3 speeds, take note of your power meter output, and then use those average powers to program a new power map. That is ineffective as well.

Here is what I am seeing. When I start to warm up on the velodrome, the first thing I notice is that the power showing on the BKOOL simulator is much higher than what my power meter is reading, and speed is unrealistically high. For example, it will show me going 18mph and generating 200w, when my power meter is showing 140 watts. Now Elite support, you may step in here and say (support quote): " If the trainer brakes too much in that specific situation (power on screen seems too low compared to what you feel on the legs), increase the correspondent calibration point; if it brakes too little (power on screen seems too high), decrease the calibration point".

This does not solve the problem, and here is why. Continuing on with my example above, what happens is that as I increase speed, the Elite power output reading to the app, and my power meter reading start to converge, to a point to where I am doing a moderate sprint at 30mph, and both the Elite trainer and my power meter are showing approximately 475w. So this is why the solution is not simply a matter of lowering or increasing the P1-3 values proportionally. The power is correct at high speeds, incorrect at low speeds. This suggests that this is an issue with the curve.

So my next question is, can the curve be changed? Does increasing or decreasing the P1-3 values disproportionately modify the curve? If so, then how should one go about doing this? Because I have been experimenting with disproportionate P1-3 values and the results are erratic and inconsistent. I can't find a pattern.

Kris

paulw7613
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:30 pm

Re: Power Map Calibration Issues with Elite Arion Digital Smart B+

Postby paulw7613 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:49 pm

Hello,
Have a look at my post (see ref below) as it seems we are having some similar issues as I'm finding the map response isn't correct.

'How to load setting file (tsv)' viewtopic.php?f=33&t=970

Furthermore by inputting the default values of P1,P2 & P3 as supplied by 'Elite' for my trainer the map produced by the software is different to what was loaded when the trainer was shipped! In other words the trainer will never respond as it originally did.

What I would like to do is upload a custom map to the trainer that suits me, but Elite seem reluctant to make the software available.

I've tried to attach image showing different maps for the same P1, P2 and P3 values, but not sure if the forum will display.
Attachments
Elite maps.png
Elite maps.png (50.64 KiB) Viewed 240 times

krispenhartung
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:16 am

Re: Power Map Calibration Issues with Elite Arion Digital Smart B+

Postby krispenhartung » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:12 pm

Interesting.I can see your images and read your original post and dialogue with support. So what happened out of this?
Am I correct in assuming that you can't modify the factory burned algorithm (which creates a unique map or non-linear power curve), correct? So in this case, is it not possible to use very irregular power values for P1-3 in order to somehow get the trainer to simulate actual road resistance and corresponding power outputs? Or will it just hose things up even more. Their manual calibration test where you input your power meter's values into P1-3 at the varying speeds seems to bear no reflection to reality once put to practice in a training app. I have since resorted to folding up the Elite trainer, putting it in the closet, and using my Kreitler rollers with a head wind fan, using my bike's power meter. The training apps obviously won't be able to change the resistance of my rollers, but that isn't even necessary. I'm simulating the sprint lane of a velodrome...one fixed resistance! So I just adjust the resistance on my rollers with the headwind fan (which applies varying degrees of resistance), and find the resistance that matches what I see on the track.

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Elite Admin S
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 10:18 am

Re: Power Map Calibration Issues with Elite Arion Digital Smart B+

Postby Elite Admin S » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:46 am

Hi guys

There are a lot of parameters that influence the final resistance of the trainer.
This is particularly ture when you use rollers, where even small differences can affect more deeply the power.
For example, the same rider with the same bike can have a very different power simply by changing the pressure of the tire.

Another important note is that the three calibration points doesn't have to be modified all together, but one at time.
If the simulation is good at high speed and not at low speed, you'll have to modify only P1 (or at least P1 and slightly P2).

Final thing to say: if you have a power sensor (ant+ or bluetooth smart) we suggest to connect it to the app in the configuration.
In fact, even with a good calibration you'll never have the same precision of a real power sensor lecture.

Regards


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