Direto XR problems with ERG mode

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daday
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 3:41 pm

Re: Direto XR problems with ERG mode

Postby daday » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:35 am

that sounds awesome! will try to update mine tonight if i get to bike!

does anyone of you have jumping cadence numbers as well i did a zwift workout where i was supposed to be between 90 and 100 rpm - looking at the companion app i was always between 94 and 97 and felt pretty steady - however every 30-45 seconds it dropped down in the readings to ~60 and then went back up - even though there was no change in my cadence (or at least not that much ..)

jhankey
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:33 pm

Re: Direto XR problems with ERG mode

Postby jhankey » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:39 pm

Been busy away from this thread!! I'll be trying the update later today here in the UK. Thanks to all for contributing on this thread and thanks to Elite for listening. Seems we have an informed community here.

jean-benoit
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:41 pm

Re: Direto XR problems with ERG mode

Postby jean-benoit » Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:23 pm

daday wrote:that sounds awesome! will try to update mine tonight if i get to bike!

does anyone of you have jumping cadence numbers as well i did a zwift workout where i was supposed to be between 90 and 100 rpm - looking at the companion app i was always between 94 and 97 and felt pretty steady - however every 30-45 seconds it dropped down in the readings to ~60 and then went back up - even though there was no change in my cadence (or at least not that much ..)

Yes i had that too. Not sure if it was because of an ANT+ disconnection or the HT doing weird things

enesto
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:59 am

Re: Direto XR problems with ERG mode

Postby enesto » Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:36 am

Hi guys,

made some test with new FW and some comparison with older test.
I had time to test it only on Zwift, and I'm comparing with previous test made on MYET.

Old FW - MYET - SMOOTH 2:
AVG delta Watts in absolute value 15
for each interval
1st 100W 13
2nd 150W 13
3rd 100W 16
4th 200W 14
5th 150W 16
6th 200W 17



New FW - ZWIFT - SMOOTH 2
AVG delta Watts in absolute value 9
for each interval
1st 100W 20*
2nd 150W 9
3rd 100W 9
4th 200W 10
5th 150W 7
6th 200W 7


*First interval has not been considered because I've started the workout not pedaling, and the resistence was really to hard to start. I've diconnected ERG and startedagain, so I didn't consider the first interval.
From the first test I can see a 40% improvement with new FW.
My stability in cadence seems be the same (or I've improved my pedaling skill in less than 3 weeks :D )

Side notes I've used my external cadence sensor in the new FW test, but I hope this is not interfering with the results.
Side Side notes I've tried wheel = 171 and it gave me 8, but I think there is no effect, at least in Zwift, of the wheel size... maybe in MYET (test next days)

If you have time and you want to take a look to raw data and do some other "extraction" I'm just happy.

Ciao!!
Attachments
FW073_ZWIFT_CADSENSOREXT_SMOOTH-02_WHEEL-2070_test direto_XR.xlsx
New fw 073
(57.37 KiB) Downloaded 21 times
FW073_ZWIFT_CADSENSOREXT_SMOOTH-02_WHEEL-171_test direto_XR.xlsx
New fw 073 nd wheel size 171
(58.25 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
FW067_MYET_CADSENSORINT_SMOOTH-02_WHEEL-2070_test direto_XR.xlsx
Old FW 067
(71.6 KiB) Downloaded 15 times

jhankey
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:33 pm

Re: Direto XR problems with ERG mode

Postby jhankey » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:03 pm

Enesto, I did my first zwift erg work out for some time today. I think it has improved, but still not good. Compared to a kicker trace it's still all over the place. I do notice my cadence moving by 3 or 4 rpm on every rotation using the direto as the sensor. I will try the same session in a few days with a proper cadence sensor also.... I had been wondering if this is part of the issue. ( Session was 4.0w/kg intervals....so my legs are shot)

mitjagodec
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:40 pm

Re: Direto XR problems with ERG mode

Postby mitjagodec » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:06 pm

aa
Last edited by mitjagodec on Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jhankey
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:33 pm

Re: Direto XR problems with ERG mode

Postby jhankey » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:18 pm

Jenc0, I hope so. In free ride mode I think it is very good. I think it is just too sensitive in erg mode. I was going from 130w to 250w today, keeping a stable cadence and it took a while to ramp up. when it eventually got there I still had a lot of variation. It feels like you dont have a fixed level of resistance, it's always moving. Elite argue you have to keep a constant cadence, in enesto's latest files he keeps steady 79 to 81 rpm over about 20 seconds at 200w, but gets a 40W+ range 167 to 209 or something like that.
In free ride mode, you want to to be accurate as possible, so just like in reality there is not much watts being applied at the top of the stroke. In ERG mode I feel that it is still working this way, not averaging the power over one full rotation, so the trainer is reassessing the power requirements at least 4 times per revolution, on each push and the 2 deadspots.
I am sure elite will find a good compromise, but it still isn't great.

enesto
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:59 am

Re: Direto XR problems with ERG mode

Postby enesto » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:43 pm

jhankey wrote:Jenc0, I hope so. In free ride mode I think it is very good. I think it is just too sensitive in erg mode. I was going from 130w to 250w today, keeping a stable cadence and it took a while to ramp up. when it eventually got there I still had a lot of variation. It feels like you dont have a fixed level of resistance, it's always moving. Elite argue you have to keep a constant cadence, in enesto's latest files he keeps steady 79 to 81 rpm over about 20 seconds at 200w, but gets a 40W+ range 167 to 209 or something like that.
In free ride mode, you want to to be accurate as possible, so just like in reality there is not much watts being applied at the top of the stroke. In ERG mode I feel that it is still working this way, not averaging the power over one full rotation, so the trainer is reassessing the power requirements at least 4 times per revolution, on each push and the 2 deadspots.
I am sure elite will find a good compromise, but it still isn't great.

Yeah, you're absolutely right...
Sometimes you get spikes in power up, down, up... It seems that the trainer is over reacting.

jhankey
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:33 pm

Re: Direto XR problems with ERG mode

Postby jhankey » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:48 pm

Enesto, I did a group recovery ride today in a double drafting pack. Ok, low watts but a lot of dynamic variation in the game which you can actually feel(Gradient and drafting). I could hold it within about +/-5w with a; the dynamics kicking off all around me!!! In ERG mode it feels like you are chasing a moving target all of the time.
I might ride Tempest fugit on a TT bike tomorrow, not affected by drafting dynamics and the route is pretty flat, and see how well I can ride that freely at 50w steps upto 250w.

BelgianFlandrien
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 8:08 am

Re: Direto XR problems with ERG mode

Postby BelgianFlandrien » Thu Oct 29, 2020 7:36 am

Curious if we could maybe reach out to dcrainmaker and/or gplama to do a short re-test of the trainer with the new firmware update, version 73, the version every one of us can actually install :D to see if it performs as good as the version they were able to test.
Also a bit frustrating that we are not getting any reply of an admin on this thread :roll:


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